Remote Repositories

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Remote Repositories

Troy A. Griffitts
I have 2 things I'd like for us to discuss and finalize fairly quickly
if that's at all possible ;)

1) As we discussed in the past, I think we all agreed it would be useful
to add an official .conf entry for navigating to the purchase URL for a
locked module.  Currently the user has to scan the About section to find
this.  If we added:

UnlockURL=

would it be feasible we could have fairly rapid support for spawning an
HTML viewer to this URL from our major frontends?

2) Current Events:  I'd like to have a:

NEWS.txt

or some such file recognized at the root of our remote module
repositories which allow publishers to let interested users know what's
going on at their institution.  I envision a simple memo control showing
the contents of this file in our applications' installer view when
showing a repository's resources.

I can add a method to InstallMgr's InstallSource class: SWBuf getNews(),
or something similar.


I have ideas about how publishers could support multiple languages:

NEWS.txt
NEWS.txt.de
NEWS.txt.es

with proper defaults and such, but does this concept sound like
something we'd all be willing to implement, and in what timeframe?

Hope everyone has had a very wonderful Christmas filled with family,
friends, and love.


Troy


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Re: Remote Repositories

Jonathan Morgan
Hi Troy,

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Troy A. Griffitts <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have 2 things I'd like for us to discuss and finalize fairly quickly
if that's at all possible ;)

1) As we discussed in the past, I think we all agreed it would be useful
to add an official .conf entry for navigating to the purchase URL for a
locked module.  Currently the user has to scan the About section to find
this.  If we added:

UnlockURL=

would it be feasible we could have fairly rapid support for spawning an
HTML viewer to this URL from our major frontends?
 
This makes sense.  If it were standardised we might put it in for BPBible 0.5, but I wouldn't guarantee it at this stage.

Is this something that could get out of date?  A publisher changes their URL schema and suddenly that link no longer works?

2) Current Events:  I'd like to have a:

NEWS.txt

or some such file recognized at the root of our remote module
repositories which allow publishers to let interested users know what's
going on at their institution.  I envision a simple memo control showing
the contents of this file in our applications' installer view when
showing a repository's resources.

I can add a method to InstallMgr's InstallSource class: SWBuf getNews(),
or something similar.


I have ideas about how publishers could support multiple languages:

NEWS.txt
NEWS.txt.de
NEWS.txt.es

with proper defaults and such, but does this concept sound like
something we'd all be willing to implement, and in what timeframe?

Several thoughts on this:
1. Is this the most appropriate place to display it?
2. Will it be kept up to date? (I get frustrated by websites, etc. that have news older than a year or two old, and are either no longer doing anything or have given up telling me new things).
3. Is it duplicating information shown elsewhere?  Does it mean just another thing for publishers to remember to keep up to date?
4. What degree of formatting will be needed/wanted in this news?

I would be inclined to suggest the following instead:
1. Module repositories have some kind of a description or about section.  This states the purpose of repository, etc., and is hopefully much less likely to change or be out of date.
2. Module repositories can have a URL to the main site for that module repository.  This could be the main page of the publisher or a special page for the SWORD repository or whatever else the publisher chooses.  If they want to have news I would probably expect it more to be on a feed on a webpage somewhere than in InstallMgr.  This also means those who come across it who are not using SWORD get the same information, and there are no compromises to force-fit the news to what frontends will support.

You could support something like this with a fairly standard conf file at the base of the repository.  Maybe other fields could be included as well (such as a display name for the repository), but it seems to me a bit arbitrary to have news and nothing else, and I'm not sure that I follow the reasoning.

Thoughts?

Jon
 
Hope everyone has had a very wonderful Christmas filled with family,
friends, and love.


Troy


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Re: Remote Repositories

Troy A. Griffitts
Thanks for the input Jonathan,

On 12/28/2010 09:57 PM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>     UnlockURL=

> This makes sense.  If it were standardised we might put it in for
> BPBible 0.5, but I wouldn't guarantee it at this stage.

Thanks!

> Is this something that could get out of date?  A publisher changes their
> URL schema and suddenly that link no longer works?

Well, this will probably be used at install time, so hopefully the user
is attempting to remote install the latest version of the module from
the publisher's own remote repository which should have an up-to-date
URL... but of course, I wouldn't put it past someone to forget to update
the entry in the .conf file.


>     2) Current Events:  I'd like to have a:
>
>     NEWS.txt
>

Well, a general comment which might have bearing on your thoughts below.
 This item was spawned by a publisher stating that they would like to
"have a chance to interact with" users downloading modules from the
publisher's repository.

This was my first thought to give them a basic mechanism to do such.  I
called it "NEWS.txt" incidentally, as my best guess at what they'd like
to say when they 'interacted' with users.  I could be off on my
assumptions, and obviously the repository maintainer could put whatever
they wanted in there-- not just news.  Maybe, as you say, simply a
repository description, or "Visit us at: http://..." or whatever.

Formatting is another issue you bring up which, if we decide to do this,
we certainly do need to resolve.  I'm not inclined to open up the issue
of moving .conf entries from basicRTF+<a href...> markup right now, so
it would probably stay in line with this lame legacy markup for now.
Just as a summary to this topic, I understand we probably need to
advance to some HTML markup for the .conf About section, but it requires
an orchestrated switch, and frankly, I'm ok with having a very limited
set of tags (I think we support italic, bold, center, paragraph break,
and <a href...>) in our About section.  It makes it easy for a variety
of display methods on a variety of devices.  And it really should just
simply be an "About".

Any more thoughts?

Troy



> Several thoughts on this:
> 1. Is this the most appropriate place to display it?
> 2. Will it be kept up to date? (I get frustrated by websites, etc. that
> have news older than a year or two old, and are either no longer doing
> anything or have given up telling me new things).
> 3. Is it duplicating information shown elsewhere?  Does it mean just
> another thing for publishers to remember to keep up to date?
> 4. What degree of formatting will be needed/wanted in this news?
>
> I would be inclined to suggest the following instead:
> 1. Module repositories have some kind of a description or about
> section.  This states the purpose of repository, etc., and is hopefully
> much less likely to change or be out of date.
> 2. Module repositories can have a URL to the main site for that module
> repository.  This could be the main page of the publisher or a special
> page for the SWORD repository or whatever else the publisher chooses.
> If they want to have news I would probably expect it more to be on a
> feed on a webpage somewhere than in InstallMgr.  This also means those
> who come across it who are not using SWORD get the same information, and
> there are no compromises to force-fit the news to what frontends will
> support.
>
> You could support something like this with a fairly standard conf file
> at the base of the repository.  Maybe other fields could be included as
> well (such as a display name for the repository), but it seems to me a
> bit arbitrary to have news and nothing else, and I'm not sure that I
> follow the reasoning.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jon
>  
>
>     Hope everyone has had a very wonderful Christmas filled with family,
>     friends, and love.
>
>
>     Troy
>
>
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>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>     Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
>
>
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Re: Remote Repositories

Greg Hellings

Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are already perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already around. See RSS, Atom and related technologies.

--Greg

On Dec 28, 2010 11:25 PM, "Troy A. Griffitts" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the input Jonathan,
>
> On 12/28/2010 09:57 PM, Jonathan Morgan wrote:
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> UnlockURL=
>
>> This makes sense. If it were standardised we might put it in for
>> BPBible 0.5, but I wouldn't guarantee it at this stage.
>
> Thanks!
>
>> Is this something that could get out of date? A publisher changes their
>> URL schema and suddenly that link no longer works?
>
> Well, this will probably be used at install time, so hopefully the user
> is attempting to remote install the latest version of the module from
> the publisher's own remote repository which should have an up-to-date
> URL... but of course, I wouldn't put it past someone to forget to update
> the entry in the .conf file.
>
>
>> 2) Current Events: I'd like to have a:
>>
>> NEWS.txt
>>
>
> Well, a general comment which might have bearing on your thoughts below.
> This item was spawned by a publisher stating that they would like to
> "have a chance to interact with" users downloading modules from the
> publisher's repository.
>
> This was my first thought to give them a basic mechanism to do such. I
> called it "NEWS.txt" incidentally, as my best guess at what they'd like
> to say when they 'interacted' with users. I could be off on my
> assumptions, and obviously the repository maintainer could put whatever
> they wanted in there-- not just news. Maybe, as you say, simply a
> repository description, or "Visit us at: http://..." or whatever.
>
> Formatting is another issue you bring up which, if we decide to do this,
> we certainly do need to resolve. I'm not inclined to open up the issue
> of moving .conf entries from basicRTF+<a href...> markup right now, so
> it would probably stay in line with this lame legacy markup for now.
> Just as a summary to this topic, I understand we probably need to
> advance to some HTML markup for the .conf About section, but it requires
> an orchestrated switch, and frankly, I'm ok with having a very limited
> set of tags (I think we support italic, bold, center, paragraph break,
> and <a href...>) in our About section. It makes it easy for a variety
> of display methods on a variety of devices. And it really should just
> simply be an "About".
>
> Any more thoughts?
>
> Troy
>
>
>
>> Several thoughts on this:
>> 1. Is this the most appropriate place to display it?
>> 2. Will it be kept up to date? (I get frustrated by websites, etc. that
>> have news older than a year or two old, and are either no longer doing
>> anything or have given up telling me new things).
>> 3. Is it duplicating information shown elsewhere? Does it mean just
>> another thing for publishers to remember to keep up to date?
>> 4. What degree of formatting will be needed/wanted in this news?
>>
>> I would be inclined to suggest the following instead:
>> 1. Module repositories have some kind of a description or about
>> section. This states the purpose of repository, etc., and is hopefully
>> much less likely to change or be out of date.
>> 2. Module repositories can have a URL to the main site for that module
>> repository. This could be the main page of the publisher or a special
>> page for the SWORD repository or whatever else the publisher chooses.
>> If they want to have news I would probably expect it more to be on a
>> feed on a webpage somewhere than in InstallMgr. This also means those
>> who come across it who are not using SWORD get the same information, and
>> there are no compromises to force-fit the news to what frontends will
>> support.
>>
>> You could support something like this with a fairly standard conf file
>> at the base of the repository. Maybe other fields could be included as
>> well (such as a display name for the repository), but it seems to me a
>> bit arbitrary to have news and nothing else, and I'm not sure that I
>> follow the reasoning.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> Hope everyone has had a very wonderful Christmas filled with family,
>> friends, and love.
>>
>>
>> Troy
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: [hidden email]
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
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Re: Remote Repositories

Jonathan Morgan
Greg,

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Greg Hellings <[hidden email]> wrote:

Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are already perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already around. See RSS, Atom and related technologies.


Because I'm not convinced that every frontend wants to have to implement parsing and display of RSS, Atom or related technologies.  Having one chunk of formatted text to show might not be the best in the world, but at least it's relatively simple to do.

Jon

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Re: Remote Repositories

Greg Hellings

Troy said he would provide a way to get the access from the engine.

RSS is simply XML. Troy has told us the engine has Xml processing power (I don't know how it would handle the use of CDATA sections common in RSS). Every front end I am aware of has access to XML libraries already outside of Sword.

--Greg

On Dec 28, 2010 11:45 PM, "Jonathan Morgan" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Greg,
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Greg Hellings <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are
>> already perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already around.
>> See RSS, Atom and related technologies.
>>
>
> Because I'm not convinced that every frontend wants to have to implement
> parsing and display of RSS, Atom or related technologies. Having one chunk
> of formatted text to show might not be the best in the world, but at least
> it's relatively simple to do.
>
> Jon

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Re: Remote Repositories

Troy A. Griffitts
Greg,

I might not have done a good job explaining the purpose of this field.
My intention is to provide the publisher with a way to communicate basic
information to users who view their repository from any of our
applications.  This may be news, it may be a promotion, it may just be a
"Thanks for visiting our repository" blurb.  Just some way the publisher
can communicate information to anyone who might be interested in a
publisher's repository.

Hope this clears things up.

Troy



On 12/28/2010 10:50 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

> Troy said he would provide a way to get the access from the engine.
>
> RSS is simply XML. Troy has told us the engine has Xml processing power
> (I don't know how it would handle the use of CDATA sections common in
> RSS). Every front end I am aware of has access to XML libraries already
> outside of Sword.
>
> --Greg
>
> On Dec 28, 2010 11:45 PM, "Jonathan Morgan" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>> Greg,
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Greg Hellings
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>wrote:
>>
>>> Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are
>>> already perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already
> around.
>>> See RSS, Atom and related technologies.
>>>
>>
>> Because I'm not convinced that every frontend wants to have to implement
>> parsing and display of RSS, Atom or related technologies. Having one chunk
>> of formatted text to show might not be the best in the world, but at least
>> it's relatively simple to do.
>>
>> Jon
>
>
>
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Re: Remote Repositories

Greg Hellings

That was clear - and RSS still fits the bill perfectly. A static file with one entry, or a dynamic list 100 entries long, and it cab be left to the app whether to display one entry, up to five, or all of them.

The format is already defined, well known, easily processed, easily generated, very versatile and completely fills your need.

We are not talking about the need for the engine or app to hold all the extra seen/unseen information and polling that generic RSS readers maintain. Simply parse a well defined format retrieved from the server and display it to the user.

--Greg

On Dec 29, 2010 12:05 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Greg,
>
> I might not have done a good job explaining the purpose of this field.
> My intention is to provide the publisher with a way to communicate basic
> information to users who view their repository from any of our
> applications. This may be news, it may be a promotion, it may just be a
> "Thanks for visiting our repository" blurb. Just some way the publisher
> can communicate information to anyone who might be interested in a
> publisher's repository.
>
> Hope this clears things up.
>
> Troy
>
>
>
> On 12/28/2010 10:50 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:
>> Troy said he would provide a way to get the access from the engine.
>>
>> RSS is simply XML. Troy has told us the engine has Xml processing power
>> (I don't know how it would handle the use of CDATA sections common in
>> RSS). Every front end I am aware of has access to XML libraries already
>> outside of Sword.
>>
>> --Greg
>>
>> On Dec 28, 2010 11:45 PM, "Jonathan Morgan" <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>> Greg,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Greg Hellings
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are
>>>> already perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already
>> around.
>>>> See RSS, Atom and related technologies.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because I'm not convinced that every frontend wants to have to implement
>>> parsing and display of RSS, Atom or related technologies. Having one chunk
>>> of formatted text to show might not be the best in the world, but at least
>>> it's relatively simple to do.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
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>
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Re: Remote Repositories

Jonathan Morgan
In reply to this post by Greg Hellings
Greg,

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Greg Hellings <[hidden email]> wrote:

Troy said he would provide a way to get the access from the engine.

RSS is simply XML. Troy has told us the engine has Xml processing power (I don't know how it would handle the use of CDATA sections common in RSS). Every front end I am aware of has access to XML libraries already outside of Sword.


My point still stands.  A chunk of text to display is simple (the hardest decision is to think where to put it).  Pre-formatted text is slightly harder, but still fairly simple.  RSS requires some form of processing, and some form of formatting.  It also makes it reasonably likely that you will have to consider showing either small quantities of text or large quantities of text, with corresponding UI implications.  It all seems a bit of overkill when what the user probably wants is just a description of what the repository is.

Jon
 

--Greg

On Dec 28, 2010 11:45 PM, "Jonathan Morgan" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Greg,
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Greg Hellings <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Why does the News.txt need to have a format we talk about? There are
>> already perfectly good definitions for news lists and feeds already around.
>> See RSS, Atom and related technologies.
>>
>
> Because I'm not convinced that every frontend wants to have to implement
> parsing and display of RSS, Atom or related technologies. Having one chunk
> of formatted text to show might not be the best in the world, but at least
> it's relatively simple to do.
>
> Jon

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Re: Remote Repositories

Greg Hellings

According to Troy it could function as a simple hello message, or it could function as a news list. That is why I suggest RSS as fulfilling both needs.  If you want to limit it to a single plain blob, by all means, make it just a plaintext, rtf or html file that is staticly fetched and displayed.

--Greg

On Dec 29, 2010 12:17 AM, "Jonathan Morgan" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Re: Remote Repositories

Troy A. Griffitts
Hey Greg,

Thanks for the suggestions.  If we need to expand the functionality to a
full blown news facility, then using RSS sounds like the right technology.

Right now, I do think limiting the functionality is important.  I need
something easy to implement quickly so we can gain widespread adoption
in all of our frontend applications.

As Jonathan pointed out, the first, hardest part of implementing a
simple blurb feature for the publisher is freeing up real estate
somewhere for the component.  It's really not much thought or effort
beyond that.

If we get requests from publishers who desire to maintain their own RSS
feed within this mechanism, then we can expand the design at that time.

Thanks for the input.

Troy



On 12/28/2010 11:52 PM, Greg Hellings wrote:

> According to Troy it could function as a simple hello message, or it
> could function as a news list. That is why I suggest RSS as fulfilling
> both needs.  If you want to limit it to a single plain blob, by all
> means, make it just a plaintext, rtf or html file that is staticly
> fetched and displayed.
>
> --Greg
>
> On Dec 29, 2010 12:17 AM, "Jonathan Morgan" <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Remote Repositories

David Haslam
Troy,

Why do we need a new conf element for news?
Surely it would be sufficiently effective to include the URL for an RSS feed within the Description element.

This is visible to all front-ends that have a feature to display the module description, whether during or after installation.

David
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Re: Remote Repositories

DM Smith-5
In reply to this post by Troy A. Griffitts

On Dec 29, 2010, at 12:25 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

I'm ok with having a very limited
set of tags (I think we support italic, bold, center, paragraph break,
and <a href...>) in our About section.

The "official" statement regarding our conf is:
It is well maintained with the results of discussions here.

Only the ShortPromo section allows <a href="xxx">label</a>

The only allowable RTF is:
\qc
\par
\pard
\u{num}?

It is allowed only in the About section.

On another note:
* There are confs with bad Version= strings. It is supposed to be a number. It specifically says to not use non--numbers.

In Him,
DM


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Re: Remote Repositories

Nic Carter
In reply to this post by Troy A. Griffitts

I like your suggestions, Troy.  :)

Regarding #1, this would be great for PS!  I would hope to have this in v1.4.0, which I'm hoping to have out in the next month or so?

#2 is more interesting.  As long as it was rather short (a couple of lines?), it should be easy to incorporate into PS & make prominent.  Longer, and it wouldn't be displayed to users unless they requested the info by hitting a button or something?
Plaintext seems like it would cause the least number of issues, given the feedback of other people?  but if it were to be longer, perhaps html would be more appropriate?


Thanks, ybic
        nic...  :)

On 29/12/2010, at 11:24 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

> I have 2 things I'd like for us to discuss and finalize fairly quickly
> if that's at all possible ;)
>
> 1) As we discussed in the past, I think we all agreed it would be useful
> to add an official .conf entry for navigating to the purchase URL for a
> locked module.  Currently the user has to scan the About section to find
> this.  If we added:
>
> UnlockURL=
>
> would it be feasible we could have fairly rapid support for spawning an
> HTML viewer to this URL from our major frontends?
>
> 2) Current Events:  I'd like to have a:
>
> NEWS.txt
>
> or some such file recognized at the root of our remote module
> repositories which allow publishers to let interested users know what's
> going on at their institution.  I envision a simple memo control showing
> the contents of this file in our applications' installer view when
> showing a repository's resources.
>
> I can add a method to InstallMgr's InstallSource class: SWBuf getNews(),
> or something similar.
>
>
> I have ideas about how publishers could support multiple languages:
>
> NEWS.txt
> NEWS.txt.de
> NEWS.txt.es
>
> with proper defaults and such, but does this concept sound like
> something we'd all be willing to implement, and in what timeframe?
>
> Hope everyone has had a very wonderful Christmas filled with family,
> friends, and love.
>
>
> Troy
>
>
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